Empathy List Archives

FO

Francis O Dudas

Sat, May 1, 2021 5:01 AM

Hi All,

I’m working on a paper dealing with granitoids. I don’t like the alphabetic classification - I, S, A type, etc. - but I also don’t see a consensus on what “best practice” might be in reporting on these rocks. Any observations, suggestions, reactions would be helpful. Would an I-, S-, or A-type identification be useful to you in reading a paper, or in reviewing a paper? (How much trouble will I get into with reviewers if I use it?)

Thanks,
Frank

Hi All, I’m working on a paper dealing with granitoids. I don’t like the alphabetic classification - I, S, A type, etc. - but I also don’t see a consensus on what “best practice” might be in reporting on these rocks. Any observations, suggestions, reactions would be helpful. Would an I-, S-, or A-type identification be useful to you in reading a paper, or in reviewing a paper? (How much trouble will I get into with reviewers if I use it?) Thanks, Frank

GD

Gregory Dumond

Sun, May 2, 2021 2:23 PM

Hi Frank,

I hope you are doing well over there! A straightforward and one of the least genetic classifications for granites is the one by Frost et al. (2001):

Frost, B.R., Barnes, C.G., Collins, W.J., Arculus, R.J., Ellis, D.J., and Frost, C.D., 2001, A Geochemical Classification for Granitic Rocks: Journal of Petrology, v. 42, p. 2033-2048.

The approach was extended for all feldspathic igneous rocks by Frost and Frost (2008):

Frost, B.R., and Frost, C.D., 2008, A Geochemical Classification for Feldspathic Igneous Rocks: Journal of Petrology, v. 49, p. 1955-1969.

Both are attached. The parameters in the 2001 paper include Fe#, aluminum saturation index, and the modified alkali-lime index. The 2008 paper added indices for alkalinity and feldspathoid silica-saturation.

Take care,

Greg

Gregory Dumond
Associate Professor
Department of Geosciences, University of Arkansas
Fayetteville, AR 72701, USA

"My successes are not my own. The way to them was prepared by others. The fruit of my labors is not my own, for I am preparing the way for the achievements of another." --- Thomas Merton

From: Francis O Dudas via MSA-talk msa-talk@minlists.org
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 12:01 AM
To: msa-talk@minlists.org msa-talk@minlists.org
Subject: [MSA-talk] Classification of granitoids

Hi All,

I’m working on a paper dealing with granitoids. I don’t like the alphabetic classification - I, S, A type, etc. - but I also don’t see a consensus on what “best practice” might be in reporting on these rocks. Any observations, suggestions, reactions would be helpful. Would an I-, S-, or A-type identification be useful to you in reading a paper, or in reviewing a paper? (How much trouble will I get into with reviewers if I use it?)

Thanks,
Frank

Hi Frank, I hope you are doing well over there! A straightforward and one of the least genetic classifications for granites is the one by Frost et al. (2001): Frost, B.R., Barnes, C.G., Collins, W.J., Arculus, R.J., Ellis, D.J., and Frost, C.D., 2001, A Geochemical Classification for Granitic Rocks: Journal of Petrology, v. 42, p. 2033-2048. The approach was extended for all feldspathic igneous rocks by Frost and Frost (2008): Frost, B.R., and Frost, C.D., 2008, A Geochemical Classification for Feldspathic Igneous Rocks: Journal of Petrology, v. 49, p. 1955-1969. Both are attached. The parameters in the 2001 paper include Fe#, aluminum saturation index, and the modified alkali-lime index. The 2008 paper added indices for alkalinity and feldspathoid silica-saturation. Take care, Greg ----- Gregory Dumond Associate Professor Department of Geosciences, University of Arkansas Fayetteville, AR 72701, USA "My successes are not my own. The way to them was prepared by others. The fruit of my labors is not my own, for I am preparing the way for the achievements of another." --- Thomas Merton ________________________________ From: Francis O Dudas via MSA-talk <msa-talk@minlists.org> Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 12:01 AM To: msa-talk@minlists.org <msa-talk@minlists.org> Subject: [MSA-talk] Classification of granitoids Hi All, I’m working on a paper dealing with granitoids. I don’t like the alphabetic classification - I, S, A type, etc. - but I also don’t see a consensus on what “best practice” might be in reporting on these rocks. Any observations, suggestions, reactions would be helpful. Would an I-, S-, or A-type identification be useful to you in reading a paper, or in reviewing a paper? (How much trouble will I get into with reviewers if I use it?) Thanks, Frank

DD

David Dolejs

Sun, May 2, 2021 7:23 PM

Dear Frank,

the alphabet classification of granitic rocks seems rather archaic to
me, although I have nothing against reviewing source rocks of granitic
magmas as one of genetic criteria.

Classification of granitic rocks? I do not think that there is a unique
answer and would be to review several perspectives: source rocks,
melting mechanisms, differentiation pathways etc.

Here are several "post-alphabet" suggestions that may be helpful:

Barbarin 1990
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/gj.3350250306

Barbarin 1999
https://doi.org/10.1016/S0024-4937(98)00085-1

Clemens 2012
https://doi.org/10.1179/1743275813Y.0000000023

Bonin 2007
doi: 10.1016/j.lithos.2006.12.007

Bonin 2012
10.1016/j.lithos.2012.04.007

Bonin et al. 2020
Chemical variation, modal composition and classification of granitoids

Jacob & Moyen 2020
https://doi.org/10.1016/B978-0-12-409548-9.12501-1

Moyen 2020
https://doi.org/10.1144/SP489-2018-34

Clemens & Phillips 2020
https://doi.org/10.1080/08120099.2020.1701076

and of course the two Frost's papers already mentioned by Greg Dumond.

I hope this helps (with apologies to those suffering from my personal
bias),

David

--
David Dolejs (Professor of Mineralogy & Petrology)
Institute of Earth and Environmental Sciences, University of Freiburg
Albertstr. 23b, 79104 Freiburg i.Br., Germany
Tel direct: +49 (0)761 203 6395 / secretary: +49 (0)761 203 6396
Fax: +49 (0)761 203 6407
Web: http://www.minpetro.uni-freiburg.de/team/dolejs

Dear Frank, the alphabet classification of granitic rocks seems rather archaic to me, although I have nothing against reviewing source rocks of granitic magmas as one of genetic criteria. Classification of granitic rocks? I do not think that there is a unique answer and would be to review several perspectives: source rocks, melting mechanisms, differentiation pathways etc. Here are several "post-alphabet" suggestions that may be helpful: Barbarin 1990 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/gj.3350250306 Barbarin 1999 https://doi.org/10.1016/S0024-4937(98)00085-1 Clemens 2012 https://doi.org/10.1179/1743275813Y.0000000023 Bonin 2007 doi: 10.1016/j.lithos.2006.12.007 Bonin 2012 10.1016/j.lithos.2012.04.007 Bonin et al. 2020 Chemical variation, modal composition and classification of granitoids Jacob & Moyen 2020 https://doi.org/10.1016/B978-0-12-409548-9.12501-1 Moyen 2020 https://doi.org/10.1144/SP489-2018-34 Clemens & Phillips 2020 https://doi.org/10.1080/08120099.2020.1701076 and of course the two Frost's papers already mentioned by Greg Dumond. I hope this helps (with apologies to those suffering from my personal bias), David -- David Dolejs (Professor of Mineralogy & Petrology) Institute of Earth and Environmental Sciences, University of Freiburg Albertstr. 23b, 79104 Freiburg i.Br., Germany Tel direct: +49 (0)761 203 6395 / secretary: +49 (0)761 203 6396 Fax: +49 (0)761 203 6407 Web: http://www.minpetro.uni-freiburg.de/team/dolejs

EM

Etienne Médard

Sun, May 2, 2021 7:40 PM

Hi Francis,

I personnaly like the approach developped by Bernard Barbarin, a relatively simple attempt to combine geochemical parameters, mineralogy, and geodynamics. It has proven really accessible and meaningfull to non-experts (e.g., students, or myself).

[ https://ead-sciences.univ-st-etienne.fr/claroline/backends/download.php?cidReq=LIC_SEM_6&cidReset=true&url=L0FuYWx5c2UsX3By6XNlbnRhdGlvbl9ldF9kaXNjdXNzaW9uX2RlX3B1YmxpY2F0aW9uc19zY2llbnRpZmlxdWVzL0JhcmJhcmluX0xpdGhvc18xOTk5X0FfcmV2aWV3X29mX3RoZV9yZWxhdGlvbnNoaXBzX2JldHdlZW5fZ3Jhbml0b2lkX3R5cGVzLnBkZg%3D%3D | https://ead-sciences.univ-st-etienne.fr/claroline/backends/download.php?cidReq=LIC_SEM_6&cidReset=true&url=L0FuYWx5c2UsX3By6XNlbnRhdGlvbl9ldF9kaXNjdXNzaW9uX2RlX3B1YmxpY2F0aW9uc19zY2llbnRpZmlxdWVzL0JhcmJhcmluX0xpdGhvc18xOTk5X0FfcmV2aWV3X29mX3RoZV9yZWxhdGlvbnNoaXBzX2JldHdlZW5fZ3Jhbml0b2lkX3R5cGVzLnBkZg%3D%3D ]

Might be biased because we are colleagues at the same university.

Etienne

De: "Francis O Dudas via MSA-talk" msa-talk@minlists.org
À: msa-talk@minlists.org
Envoyé: Samedi 1 Mai 2021 07:01:44
Objet: [MSA-talk] Classification of granitoids

Hi All,

I’m working on a paper dealing with granitoids. I don’t like the alphabetic classification - I, S, A type, etc. - but I also don’t see a consensus on what “best practice” might be in reporting on these rocks. Any observations, suggestions, reactions would be helpful. Would an I-, S-, or A-type identification be useful to you in reading a paper, or in reviewing a paper? (How much trouble will I get into with reviewers if I use it?)

Thanks,
Frank

MSA-talk mailing list -- msa-talk@minlists.org
To unsubscribe send an email to msa-talk-leave@minlists.org

Hi Francis, I personnaly like the approach developped by Bernard Barbarin, a relatively simple attempt to combine geochemical parameters, mineralogy, and geodynamics. It has proven really accessible and meaningfull to non-experts (e.g., students, or myself). [ https://ead-sciences.univ-st-etienne.fr/claroline/backends/download.php?cidReq=LIC_SEM_6&cidReset=true&url=L0FuYWx5c2UsX3By6XNlbnRhdGlvbl9ldF9kaXNjdXNzaW9uX2RlX3B1YmxpY2F0aW9uc19zY2llbnRpZmlxdWVzL0JhcmJhcmluX0xpdGhvc18xOTk5X0FfcmV2aWV3X29mX3RoZV9yZWxhdGlvbnNoaXBzX2JldHdlZW5fZ3Jhbml0b2lkX3R5cGVzLnBkZg%3D%3D | https://ead-sciences.univ-st-etienne.fr/claroline/backends/download.php?cidReq=LIC_SEM_6&cidReset=true&url=L0FuYWx5c2UsX3By6XNlbnRhdGlvbl9ldF9kaXNjdXNzaW9uX2RlX3B1YmxpY2F0aW9uc19zY2llbnRpZmlxdWVzL0JhcmJhcmluX0xpdGhvc18xOTk5X0FfcmV2aWV3X29mX3RoZV9yZWxhdGlvbnNoaXBzX2JldHdlZW5fZ3Jhbml0b2lkX3R5cGVzLnBkZg%3D%3D ] Might be biased because we are colleagues at the same university. Etienne De: "Francis O Dudas via MSA-talk" <msa-talk@minlists.org> À: msa-talk@minlists.org Envoyé: Samedi 1 Mai 2021 07:01:44 Objet: [MSA-talk] Classification of granitoids Hi All, I’m working on a paper dealing with granitoids. I don’t like the alphabetic classification - I, S, A type, etc. - but I also don’t see a consensus on what “best practice” might be in reporting on these rocks. Any observations, suggestions, reactions would be helpful. Would an I-, S-, or A-type identification be useful to you in reading a paper, or in reviewing a paper? (How much trouble will I get into with reviewers if I use it?) Thanks, Frank _______________________________________________ MSA-talk mailing list -- msa-talk@minlists.org To unsubscribe send an email to msa-talk-leave@minlists.org

P

pmodreski@aol.com

Sun, May 2, 2021 10:13 PM

Frank, I'll just say, you ask, "would it be useful to me in reading a paper", and I'll answer, yes, it would be.
Whatever shortcomings that classification (or should I say, "attribution"?) may have, I think it is something that people readily recognize and relate to, so I think it is helpful and useful to use it. In addition to whatever other descriptors or chemical parameters are referred to.
My impression is, that I, S, and A-type granitoids are most referred to in papers that focus on ore deposits related to these igneous rocks, and perhaps not as much, by papers about "pure" petrology?
Pete Modreski

-----Original Message-----
From: Francis O Dudas via MSA-talk msa-talk@minlists.org
To: msa-talk@minlists.org msa-talk@minlists.org
Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2021 11:01 pm
Subject: [MSA-talk] Classification of granitoids

Hi All,

I’m working on a paper dealing with granitoids. I don’t like the alphabetic classification - I, S, A type, etc. - but I also don’t see a consensus on what “best practice” might be in reporting on these rocks. Any observations, suggestions, reactions would be helpful. Would an I-, S-, or A-type identification be useful to you in reading a paper, or in reviewing a paper? (How much trouble will I get into with reviewers if I use it?)

Thanks,
Frank

MSA-talk mailing list -- msa-talk@minlists.org
To unsubscribe send an email to msa-talk-leave@minlists.org

Frank, I'll just say, you ask, "would it be useful to me in reading a paper", and I'll answer, yes, it would be. Whatever shortcomings that classification (or should I say, "attribution"?) may have, I think it is something that people readily recognize and relate to, so I think it is helpful and useful to use it. In addition to whatever other descriptors or chemical parameters are referred to. My impression is, that I, S, and A-type granitoids are most referred to in papers that focus on ore deposits related to these igneous rocks, and perhaps not as much, by papers about "pure" petrology? Pete Modreski -----Original Message----- From: Francis O Dudas via MSA-talk <msa-talk@minlists.org> To: msa-talk@minlists.org <msa-talk@minlists.org> Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2021 11:01 pm Subject: [MSA-talk] Classification of granitoids Hi All, I’m working on a paper dealing with granitoids. I don’t like the alphabetic classification - I, S, A type, etc. - but I also don’t see a consensus on what “best practice” might be in reporting on these rocks. Any observations, suggestions, reactions would be helpful. Would an I-, S-, or A-type identification be useful to you in reading a paper, or in reviewing a paper? (How much trouble will I get into with reviewers if I use it?) Thanks, Frank _______________________________________________ MSA-talk mailing list -- msa-talk@minlists.org To unsubscribe send an email to msa-talk-leave@minlists.org

HN

Hanna Nekvasil

Mon, May 3, 2021 2:22 PM

Yes Pete. I agree with you. I believe it to be a quick and dirty but useful
classification that does not hold up in detail, but gives a general gist
that is usable for general purposes.
Hanna Nekvasil

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 9:51 AM pmodreski--- via MSA-talk <
msa-talk@minlists.org> wrote:

Frank, I'll just say, you ask, "would it be useful to me in reading a
paper", and I'll answer, yes, it would be.

Whatever shortcomings that classification (or should I say,
"attribution"?) may have, I think it is something that people readily
recognize and relate to, so I think it is helpful and useful to use it. In
addition to whatever other descriptors or chemical parameters are referred
to.

My impression is, that I, S, and A-type granitoids are most referred to in
papers that focus on ore deposits related to these igneous rocks, and
perhaps not as much, by papers about "pure" petrology?

Pete Modreski

-----Original Message-----
From: Francis O Dudas via MSA-talk msa-talk@minlists.org
To: msa-talk@minlists.org msa-talk@minlists.org
Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2021 11:01 pm
Subject: [MSA-talk] Classification of granitoids

Hi All,

I’m working on a paper dealing with granitoids. I don’t like the
alphabetic classification - I, S, A type, etc. - but I also don’t see a
consensus on what “best practice” might be in reporting on these rocks.
Any observations, suggestions, reactions would be helpful. Would an I-,
S-, or A-type identification be useful to you in reading a paper, or in
reviewing a paper? (How much trouble will I get into with reviewers if I
use it?)

Thanks,
Frank

MSA-talk mailing list -- msa-talk@minlists.org
To unsubscribe send an email to msa-talk-leave@minlists.org

--
Hanna Nekvasil
Director of Undergraduate Studies
Professor of Geochemistry
Department of Geosciences
Stony Brook University
Stony Brook, NY 11794-2100
*(631) 632-8201 FAX 631-632-8240 *
Hanna.Nekvasil@stonybrook.edu Hanna.Nekvasil@stonybrook.edu

Yes Pete. I agree with you. I believe it to be a quick and dirty but useful classification that does not hold up in detail, but gives a general gist that is usable for general purposes. Hanna Nekvasil On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 9:51 AM pmodreski--- via MSA-talk < msa-talk@minlists.org> wrote: > Frank, I'll just say, you ask, "would it be useful to me in reading a > paper", and I'll answer, yes, it would be. > > Whatever shortcomings that classification (or should I say, > "attribution"?) may have, I think it is something that people readily > recognize and relate to, so I think it is helpful and useful to use it. In > addition to whatever other descriptors or chemical parameters are referred > to. > > My impression is, that I, S, and A-type granitoids are most referred to in > papers that focus on ore deposits related to these igneous rocks, and > perhaps not as much, by papers about "pure" petrology? > > Pete Modreski > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Francis O Dudas via MSA-talk <msa-talk@minlists.org> > To: msa-talk@minlists.org <msa-talk@minlists.org> > Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2021 11:01 pm > Subject: [MSA-talk] Classification of granitoids > > Hi All, > > I’m working on a paper dealing with granitoids. I don’t like the > alphabetic classification - I, S, A type, etc. - but I also don’t see a > consensus on what “best practice” might be in reporting on these rocks. > Any observations, suggestions, reactions would be helpful. Would an I-, > S-, or A-type identification be useful to you in reading a paper, or in > reviewing a paper? (How much trouble will I get into with reviewers if I > use it?) > > Thanks, > Frank > > > _______________________________________________ > MSA-talk mailing list -- msa-talk@minlists.org > To unsubscribe send an email to msa-talk-leave@minlists.org > _______________________________________________ > MSA-talk mailing list -- msa-talk@minlists.org > To unsubscribe send an email to msa-talk-leave@minlists.org > -- *Hanna Nekvasil* *Director of Undergraduate Studies* *Professor of Geochemistry* *Department of Geosciences* *Stony Brook University* *Stony Brook, NY 11794-2100* *(631) 632-8201 FAX 631-632-8240 * *Hanna.Nekvasil@stonybrook.edu <Hanna.Nekvasil@stonybrook.edu>*

DD

David Dolejs

Mon, Jul 18, 2022 11:43 AM

Dear colleagues,

the Institute of Earth and Environmental Sciences at the University of
Freiburg in Germany is advertising a one-year lecturer position (100 %
E13) starting in winter term 2022/23.

https://www.earthenv.uni-freiburg.de/de/institut/gumwi

The applicants should hold a Ph.D. degree (or equivalent) und be able to
teach diverse geochemical and mineralogical laboratory courses and field
trips. Basic communication skills in German would be desirable.

Please send your application or enquiries to:

Wolfgang Siebel (wolfgang.siebel@uni-tuebingen.de)
David Dolejs (david.dolejs@minpet.uni-freiburg.de)

The advertisement remains open until the position is filled.

With best wishes,
David

--
David Dolejs (Professor of Mineralogy & Petrology)
Institute of Earth and Environmental Sciences, University of Freiburg
Albertstr. 23b, 79104 Freiburg i.Br., Germany
Tel direct: +49 (0)761 203 6395 / secretary: +49 (0)761 203 6396
Fax: +49 (0)761 203 6407
Web: http://www.minpetro.uni-freiburg.de/team/dolejs

Dear colleagues, the Institute of Earth and Environmental Sciences at the University of Freiburg in Germany is advertising a one-year lecturer position (100 % E13) starting in winter term 2022/23. https://www.earthenv.uni-freiburg.de/de/institut/gumwi The applicants should hold a Ph.D. degree (or equivalent) und be able to teach diverse geochemical and mineralogical laboratory courses and field trips. Basic communication skills in German would be desirable. Please send your application or enquiries to: Wolfgang Siebel (wolfgang.siebel@uni-tuebingen.de) David Dolejs (david.dolejs@minpet.uni-freiburg.de) The advertisement remains open until the position is filled. With best wishes, David -- David Dolejs (Professor of Mineralogy & Petrology) Institute of Earth and Environmental Sciences, University of Freiburg Albertstr. 23b, 79104 Freiburg i.Br., Germany Tel direct: +49 (0)761 203 6395 / secretary: +49 (0)761 203 6396 Fax: +49 (0)761 203 6407 Web: http://www.minpetro.uni-freiburg.de/team/dolejs